This thread discusses the Content article: The Game Master Show Ep 42 (general) Female Characters

Listening to the show and discussing female characters in games, and mainly how a Female GM would play it as opposed to a Male GM. It was strange to me to hear her talk about how certain things a female GM should do a male GM most likely shouldn't when dealing with female characters. I don't like double standards.

I am very honest with my players right up front, before they even start playing with the Travelers of Karn. I tell them right at the start that I run games with a realistic basis and there are not areas that are off limits to the story. I explain that I don't necessarily go to the "dark places" right off the bat, but I don't shy away from them if they happen and come up. Most of the time it's the actions of the characters that lead where these stories go, so I am not going to pull punches if they do something that leads there. If you are going to walk alone into the dark alley full of drunk sailors, the odds are not good that you are going to walk out the other end unscathed.

That all being said, I don't believe in being overly descriptive with certain areas (mostly sexual) as that can drag the game down, but I won't skip over their existence. The bad things are as much a part of life as the good things, so I don't see why we shouldn't include them all. I have included abuse, slavery, sexism, rape, torture, racism, and all sorts of things as parts of stories throughout the years. If they seem to have a problem with any part of any of this I often suggest they don't play with us.

I am a male GM that has a mixed group (at times it has even been more female than male players) and several of my players have regularly played opposite sex from what they are (and rather well, I must say). We play what I like to think of as a mature game (just not the "Adult Material" usage of the word), and we have had many situations that I can imagine would bother some players who weren't ready for the kind of games we play. The funny thing is, we've only ever had ONE person have a problem with ONE plot point we ever had happen in the game (and eventually quit over it)... and that's in over 15 years of playing in this group (The Travelers of Karn has about 3 core people, myself included, but we generally are between 5 and 9 strong most of the time).

And that ONE problem we had was a little odd because of the circumstances of it. The person was one of those "A little too into the game" kind of people. She had issues separating from the fantasy and I would get calls in the middle of the night sometime because she was fretting over some little thing that was going on in the game world (like "I'm worried that Jacob isn't going to fit in at the job I set up for him, I need to make sure to check in on him daily.", when Jacob an unimportant NPC her character felt sorry for and got a job working in the Duke's stables). And I would get these call like three days after game day at 4AM.

Her main character was actually raped once, in a situation where she put herself in danger of it and then failed to fight them off. Completely her own doing and the luck of the dice (or unluck in this case), but she had no issue with that. She used it as a character plot point and the story grew in depth because of what she did because of it. Her character was also threatened, teased, and belittled on a regular basis, because she chose to be in a job that was mostly seen as a male oriented thing in the world (a knight). She had no issues playing all these things the world either, and even seemed to relish in them.

Then came the storyline that made her blow up and quit the group (and honestly, none of us actually missed her by this point... I was glad to be done with the non-game day calls and drama about game). We were running what we call "City Stories", which is where all the characters live in the same large city and have their own lives and stories that eventually start to weave together into some big single mystery or drama. I had about seven players at this time (eight of us total) and her story was not even connected to the story that she blew up over yet.

One of the other players was playing a sort of Courtesan or High Class Escort who wanted out of the business, mainly to keep her daughter safe from getting caught up in it (as she was starting to get to the age where she would be seen as such by the madam of the house). One of her regulars was this old military veteran who doted on her (and even loved to spoil her daughter with gifts). He often asked her to marry him and get away from her job. After a situation where she caught her daughter being fitted for some "clothing" at the house, she ran off to the old man's house to ask to stay with him. He was most pleased to accept them, and agreed to entertain the daughter while she went off to look for a respectable job. The daughter was not happy and wanted to go back to the house (which she called home) and started to get real sullen and problematic.

This was where the plot was going to get heavy. I talked to the group about what the next thing to happen was going to be. It was going to involve the discovery that the NPC daughter was being abused by the old man, which her mother (the PC) actually put her directly into the hands of. This is serious drama here and the PC of the mother LOVED the plot and couldn't wait to see how it all played out.

So that other player I talked about had an issue with me including such a plot point in the game. The group all was behind me on it and wanted to see how this story was going to play out, but she threatened to screw up the game and quit if we didn't change direction and make the old man a nice guy and the daughter was safe now that she was away from the house of ill repute. She didn't give a crap what happened to any of the PCs over the years she played with us, but always had this odd soft spot for NPCs and did all she could to protect them in any situation. This felt like another extreme version of this. She, as a PLAYER, became attached to this NPC even though her CHARACTER never met them.

The group decided to keep the story going as planned and she did what she threatened. She tried to have her character burn the house she lived in (with some of the other PCs) down, with her inside, and then quit the game very dramatically. I tried to feel bad and was sure there was more to the story, but we were tired of all her problems over the years and didn't try to work on it any more. We let her go.

Other than that I have had no complaints about anything I have included in my games and do not see a problem with a male GM going to these place as long as they discuss it with the group before they start. Give them the option of getting out before you start, but don't shy away from any of the possible story tools you have at your disposal. Don't push them just to push them, but don't shy away because you fear the taboo. If they belong to the story, include them. If they are just there to titillate, don't.

Perhaps I am just unusual as far as Male GMs go and our group is different from most groups out there, but I wouldn't want to see this done any other way. When you are going to play a more realistic and gritty game, it should not shy away from these real areas.

Now I wonder how you are all going to think of me.

Dragavan wrote:

QUOTE:
Other than that I have had no complaints about anything I have included in my games and do not see a problem with a male GM going to these place as long as they discuss it with the group before they start. Give them the option of getting out before you start, but don't shy away from any of the possible story tools you have at your disposal. Don't push them just to push them, but don't shy away because you fear the taboo. If they belong to the story, include them. If they are just there to titillate, don't.

We totally agree with you Dragavan, maybe we buried it during our conversation. We weren't trying to say that male GM's *couldn't* do the same things that female GM's could, just that there is a comfort and social issue with male GM's doing those things. You definitely had the comfort level with your group of 15 years. You also did talk with your players about it, which is essential. If you were a female GM, we posited, you wouldn't have needed as much of the comfort level or pre-planning that you actually did do.

I personally think that any GM that is going to introduce darker or disturbing situations to their games should talk with their players before hand. You don't really want to surprise people with things like that, even more so if they are a newer group of a group of people who don't know each other, like in a convention game.

tgmsdavid wrote:

QUOTE:
I personally think that any GM that is going to introduce darker or disturbing situations to their games should talk with their players before hand. You don't really want to surprise people with things like that, even more so if they are a newer group of a group of people who don't know each other, like in a convention game.

I think it's important to discuss what kind of things you're going to have in (or at least possibly in) any game you run before you start. Not just the dark things. ALL things. I would be upset if I joined a group, expecting epic fantasy and ended up in a joke fueled pun-fest just as much as if it was a dark theme-based game when I was expecting lighter fare. I don't see this as just something you do with one area only. Don't surprise people with like that with ANY game theme that isn't what they are there for.

And yes, it's better to know who you are gaming with well no matter what. It allows for a lot more tailoring of game and freedom to create better stories and themes. Again, this is not just about dark themes. This is also why I don't really have any interest in convention gaming. I like a better connection and more time to plan specifically for the people involved. Plus I am mostly interested in longer game and stories, which also doesn't work for convention games.

Hi,

I'm new to the site and I just listened to Ep 42 today. It's a long podcast but I listened to the end because it was very, very interesting. I confess that I don't really play RPGs much and I've never been a GM but I hope that that doesn't preclude me from posting.

I was slightly shocked when I listened to the beginning of the podcast because I come from outside this community and it had not occurred to me that the depth of RPGs would lead to these areas. But once I got over that (it was only momentary) I enjoyed the debate tremendously. I think there were many valid points made. For me, what was said on the podcast and on this forum rings true - if people (male and female players) know what the limits of the game are (and aren't) and accept them, then it should be ok. But it has to be full and knowing consent.

The whole idea of a heroine path and hero path was well debated and I liked the concept of the 'spiral'. My next question is - is there a transcript? I didn't catch all the references and it would be very handy to be able to look them up.

Thanks for the podcast and congrats on a interesting and informative show!

Transcript..... no we were to busy talking sorry. We are not at that level of professional yet.

Dragavan, I am glad you run such a gritty hame. In fact that was some of the point that inspired the topic. I think some GM's do take a "hands off, of gentle" approach the females, and that bothers me.

This comes down to why do you play this game, and fpr me it's to deal with things, issue and so forth from my life. By playing a game and winning battle or being tested I am able to acheive some balance.

For instance, female heorine face certain battles, or they are usually on the spiral path as Mic put it. I have seen this, read it, dreamed it since I was young. At this point I identify with it, and even want to undertake it's challenge. I often play characters that "fight" with their wits and not their brawn.

But our pod cast also acknowledged that males might not want to follow this route in case their female players reacted in a unexpected way. I realize than not every male would be comfortable or brave enough to take their game to this level. Not becuase they are capable - but becuase they don't need outside game drama from female players reacting in an unexpected way.

It sounds to me like you have a great group, and they have a great gm.
Erin

Asking for a Transcript makes me thing of Kevin Nealon on SNL when he would do the news. "If you'd like a written transcript of this news broadcast, learn to write really fast."