This thread discusses the Content article: The Game Master Show Ep 45 (general) Villains

I thought about calling in, but here's the thing--I hate listening to rambling voice-messages on podcasts. I'm a relatively new listener, so I don't know how attached to this format you are. Would you consider ditching the voice-mails and try responding to the best threads on the message boards instead?

Also, I'd like to point out to MoonDog that game sessions aren't necessarily supposed to be interesting to listen to. (At least for entertainment purposes. I've learned a lot about my own bad habits as a GM from listening to live sessions recently.) Inspired by your Dread live-play episodes, I finally pulled the game off the shelf and ran it myself. Like any RPG, the first hour ran a little slow. But I think horror games take a little longer to get into, too. It takes awhile to get into character and absorb the setting.

As for the tower not collapsing, I'm curious what version of Jenga you used. I picked up the "vintage" edition that comes in a book-style case. It was a lot trickier to manipulate than the traditional version. The blocks were pretty slippery. When we switched to the backup old-school tower after the first collapse, a lot of suspense went out of the game. It became a math puzzle. I'd recommend using the $20 kit-kat blocks instead.

Thanks for listening. More live-play and interviews and less answering machines, please.

I was really excited when I discovered the topic of this show was "Villians," but I have a question that wasn't really covered in the show.

In the show, you mentioned the sort of villian that your players "love to hate." I was wondering what sort of techniques you use in order to inspire that sort of hatred from your players. Is there more to it than having your villians rape old women and eat babies?

I've noticed in my own games that it's really hard to create a villian that is that despised without having him 1) commit terrible deeds of evil and 2) personally insult the PCs or make their lives misereable in some fashion. Is there any way to have your villians mess with the PCs in a way that actually makes them angry rather than just frustrated ("Oh, he got away. Again."? It seems that it's a lot easier to inspire hate when you mess with things that bother the players rather than the characters, playing with racism, sexism, etc.

Villians can be tricky, but be creative with them.


Don't limit yourself to making the vilians the "evil doer." how about someone who is having a more inserting opposition to the pcs. For 9instance perhaps the pc are riding out to form an alliance with a King, only to find the vilian has arrived ahead of time to warn the king that the pc's are dirt bags. Have the vilian use the pc's action to draw to light all their faults, make him the person that never accept responsibility but is always quick to find the pc's are to blame for everything.

The pc's will be enraged and now want to find ways to discredit him and all little girls and old ladies can sleep at night again in your happy towns.

There may be another way to create the villain they love to hate, but you can't go wrong with pushing the PCs' - or players' - buttons.

I agree that having the bad guys get away - or worse, keep coming back every time the PCs beat them - is frustrating for players. What I've tried to do in my own game is present a hierarchy of villains, with one at the top, and a network of minions beneath him of various abilities, personalities, challenge ratings, etc. Two of those "middle men" were the main villains for my campaign up until a few sessions ago, when the party defeated them, and dismantled their organization. But now they realize that this organization was only one tentacle of a much larger octopus.

The danger with an approach like this is that the players & PCs were more emotionally invested in beating the "middle men," and now I've got to establish the threat that the octopus represents. Since the bad guys know that the PCs are a threat, they'll be coming after them again, so it shouldn't take very long.

I think dirty deeds make the villain. You can twirl your mustache and talk about ne'er-doing-well all day, but if you don't get out there and really foreclose on the orphanage... or tie some damsels to some railroad tracks... or hire the PCs to find the Hand and Eye of Vecna, then betray them, blow up their castle, kill their favorite NPC, and run off with the artifacts... well, you might be forgotten.

Lorthyne wrote:

QUOTE:
I've noticed in my own games that it's really hard to create a villian that is that despised without having him 1) commit terrible deeds of evil and 2) personally insult the PCs or make their lives misereable in some fashion. Is there any way to have your villians mess with the PCs in a way that actually makes them angry rather than just frustrated ("Oh, he got away. Again.")? It seems that it's a lot easier to inspire hate when you mess with things that bother the players rather than the characters, playing with racism, sexism, etc.

I did something different in a superheroes game that made my characters totally despise an NPC. Thereby turning him into a villian.

The premise was simple: The player characters patrol the city and defeat the street criminals, bank robbers, and purse snatchers. At this time, they are minor celebrities with massive public support. Suddenly, a hero from a much larger city (think Superman) starts showing up after the various battles to claim credit for the apprehension. The characters 'not interested in fame' started to despise this NPC, but could not find a way to defeat him without looking like villians themselves.

I knew what my players thought - or claimed to think - about public opinion in this setting. Bottom line: they didn't care. But, after the option of being branded the 'hero' was taken away the players began to resent the NPC - or 'villian'.

A friend of mine created one of the better villains. It was for a superhero game.

Basically the guy wanted to make his girlfriend the happiest person in the world. Unfortunately, he was never able to make her happy. Therefore he got the idea to make everyone else in the world miserable. Hence, he was a villain.